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Anyone interested in talking about guitars that are optimised for fingerstyle?

The topic can get a little too big...what does fingerstyle mean, what is the best body style, what are the best woods etc. So start by assuming you were building two Mahogany/Sitka OMs, one to be used as an all around guitar, some strumming, some flat picking, some fingerstyle, the second just for solo fingerstyle guitar. What would the design differences be?

I had thought the obvious answer was to build lighter in all respects, but I might be changing my mind. I think nice fingerstyle guitars have a very focused sound, with clarity and separation and fat trebles. I think some of that goes away as you get lighter and if you move to lighter strings. I've played some nice fingerstyle guitars that sound overbuilt if you strum them.

What do people think?

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David White, Toronto

"All my favourite singers can't sing."

I'm with you David - would love to hear from our experienced members as to what makes a guitar a "fingerstyle"

I play fingerstyle. I've been told, by producers and sound engineers that I tend to pluck fairly hard at times so guitars such as Taylors tend to "distort" on me. You are on track when you are thinking about clarity,focused sound and fat trebles. As far as thinner strings, keep in mind that many fingerstlye players tend to use alternative tunings. Some use higher tunings, which causes more tension. There has been more discussion and more guitar players are becoming aware of the hazzards. I know a couple of guitarist that have distroyed some really nice guitars this way! Clinton

I could write a very long answer to this one, but I will limit myself to two changes.

First would be to ditch the Sitka, (you knew I'd say that didn't you Steve ). Great when driven hard but I feel sitka topped guitars can lack a little in subtlety for most fingerstyles. Ideally put a good Euro top on it or for a warmer sound a WRC or redwood. Englemann could be an alternative.

Second go "parabolic" on the braces, top and back, this gives more attack and better separation, in my opinion, which is what you are after for fingerstyle. You've already got the mahogany B&S so you're already a good way there in terms of lack of muddiness that some rosewoods seem to impart.

However, a major caveat to anything that anyone might say. What style of fingerstyle are you talking about? you'd really need different guitars for Travis picking, or for delta blues, or for modern contemporary and percussive styles.

Maybe you should change the 14 fretter to a 12, to move the bridge back to the sweet spot?    

Not a simple question is it?

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I've been a player much longer than a builder, so I'm answering from that perspective. I prefer a nut of at least 1 3/4", and many times am also happy with a 1 7/8" nut. I like to use a thumbpick for the basses much of the time, however I play with fingernails on all the trebles, therefore I prefer a lighter string tension. Also, many fingerstyle players use an amp, so projection is not as important to me as playability. On a side note, I think playing quieter commands an audiences attention much more than playing loud, so seperation of voice is extemely important at low volume.

I think action at the 12th fret on the 6th string, low e is perfect at 2 mm. A dime is perfect for checking this. As far as alternate tunings, I am way more likely to tune strings down than up, so I am more likely to use a heavier gauge string on the basses to keep the guitar intonated. I know most of these are setup issues, but they go a long way toward making the perfect fingerstyle guitar IMHO.

Cheers!

John

To me the major differences between fingerstyle and flatpicking instruments are in the sustain and balance. I think all guitars need to be focussed, clear, and have good seperation. Another thing I like in a fingerstyle box is 'color'; the property that allows a player to pull out a lot of different sounds.

For me, while an OM is good, a 12-fret 000 is better. If you must have 14 frets clear you can put a 14 fret neck on a 12-fret body, although, of course, you need to move the bridge, bracing, and soundhole up. The longer body just naturally gives it a little more bass.

If you're going to stick with the mahogany OM, then I'd second the notion of a top wood substitution, to something like Engelmann or even cedar. These are generally (but not always!) less dense than Sitka, with good stiffness, and you end up with a somewhat lighter weight top. Sitka also seems to have an 'odd' damping characteristic that seems, to me, to 'flatten' the tone sometimes, but maybe it's just the way I use it.

Another difference between flatpick and fingerstyle guitars is the brace profiling. Flatpick guitars respond well to scalloped bracing, which loosens up the center of the top to give it more 'punch' and less sustain, while tightening the outer edges. I use 'tapered' bracing on most of my guitars, which works well for fingerstyle. As far as I'm concerned, 'parabolic' is one type of 'taper'. The point is that you make the bracing taller at the bridge, and less tall toward the edges. I use a 'plate tuning' method that amounts to asking the braces what _they_ want to do, rather than simply using some profile that looks good to me, so I don't usually end up with a shape that is easy to categorize. It's not the shape of the brace, it's how it works with the top that matters, and that's whaty seems to give you the 'clarity', 'color' and other good stuff. But I digress.   

I like a bit of fundamental in fingerstyle boxes; it puts a floor under the tone so to speak, and is needed when the players go into those infamous drop tunings. I get that in part from tuning the back to work with the top: try to get the 'main back' resonant mode to come in around a semitone higher than the 'main top' pitch.

Tapering the top behind the bridge can also help with the bass. You can make them pretty thin at the tailblock without a loss of needed strength, but I tend to start with a thicker top than many: often around .140 in the center, although I've goone as thin as .080 at the tailblock. If you do make the top that thick be _sure_ to tune the back, or you might end up with too much treble!

Which brings up what should be the main point: each of us has a system that we use to get the sound we like. It's not really 'a la carte'; you can't expect to take the 'best' features of each person's system, put them together, and end up with a great guitar, although you might get away with it. The best idea would be to figure out what a fingerstyle sound means to you, find a guitar that does that, and try to copy that maker's system.

Thanks for the thoughts. I hadn't really considered the alternate tunings much, since I rarely change tunings but that is much more common for fingerstyle players.

Alan, I agree that clarity and separation are important for all guitars. I do think that it's easier to get that with a pick so if you're playing with your fingertips you really need the guitar to help a little in that area.

There's another thread going on body depth for an OM and it's commented that keeping the body fairly shallow will help in that area as well, which I think I agree with.

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David White, Toronto

"All my favourite singers can't sing."

Making the body deeper 'spreads out' the main air resonant peak in the output spectrum, and drops the height a little, without actually altering the peak frequency much. This tends to give a 'smoother' low end, with, perhaps, a bit less power. As usual, it's a matter of finding the balance you want.

That's an interesting comment. I am of the opinion that all guitars suffer from a least a little bit of a problem with the note closest to the main air resonance - a bit of a boomy tone. I also believe that Dreads suffer just a little less from this. This is perhaps explained by your comment.

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David White, Toronto

"All my favourite singers can't sing."